Curse

Guild Wars Guru · Jul 22, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

You can view this database entry at: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/skill/325-mind-wrack/.
You may add your comments in this thread.

ICURADik · Jul 22, 2005, 07:43 PM // 19:43

15-90ish damage...

Mercury Angel · Jul 22, 2005, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Simple linear damage equation-
15 + 5N, where N=domination

Zeru · Jul 22, 2005, 09:31 PM // 21:31

It belongs in the trash bin anyways.

Esuna · Jul 22, 2005, 10:20 PM // 22:20

If this spell is equipped in your skill bar, you'd probably be running energy denial - the only way to really be sure this skill gets used. Otherwise, it's too conditional. But there are other spells better than Mind Wrack to use, IMO. Afterall, it's not about the damage you can deal, but rendering the opponent useless (with no energy). There are plenty of other skills along the domination line that better fit that slot. =)

ICURADik · Jul 23, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

If you are running a couple Mo/Me with Energy Drain and Quickening Zephyr throwing this skill on your Mesmer could be a good option for a damage boost.

IxChel · Jul 23, 2005, 09:53 PM // 21:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

It belongs in the trash bin anyways.

I don't think so. When combined with an inspiration energy-denial build, it is a solid skill. With a reasonable fast casting, it isn't awful under Nature's Renewal. If it gets removed, you've invested less time/energy than the monk doing the removal. If it doesn't get removed, there is a darn good chance that it will trigger over a 20 second duration.

Against a Ranger, it makes an excellent covering hex for Spirit Shackles (as any good gargoyle outside Beetletun will show you). Against a monk, it makes "focus-swapping" have a good 80 HP penalty; coupled with Energy Drain you can almost gaurentee a trigger (80HP for 10 Energy isn't horrible damage); or cause them to use an interruptable spell (Remove Hex, Smite Hex, etc.) which you can Power Drain; or to cancel an enchantment /w contemplation of purity. Not bad for 5en and 1sec casting time.

If used with even a moderate amount of thought, it is a very solid complementary hex. If you're just spamming it without a plan, then, yea, it's trash. Waestrel's Worry falls into the same category; it's trash unless you've got a decent strategy for making it trigger more often than not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esuna

If this spell is equipped in your skill bar, you'd probably be running energy denial - the only way to really be sure this skill gets used. Otherwise, it's too conditional. But there are other spells better than Mind Wrack to use, IMO. Afterall, it's not about the damage you can deal, but rendering the opponent useless (with no energy). There are plenty of other skills along the domination line that better fit that slot. =)

True. However, most of those other skills arn't spammable or cost high energy. I personally prefer Mind Wrack to Wastrel's -- although both are solid choices with the right build.

Zeru · Jul 23, 2005, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Err no they both suck because if you have the right build you won't be using them.

The only possibly efficient use is wastrels worry in a soul barbs build and that requires a team build around it, not just a single character.

Other than the above instance wastrels is just a crappy dot.

Mind wrack doesn't belong in an energy denial build, first off, because primary mesmer is subpar at energy denial (R/Me and W/Me are much better for that job), and secondly, because it actually HURTS your energy denial capability to put on a rather mediocre amount of damage for the sacrifice needed. And sticking MW on a echo debil ranger or a fear me warrior is just stupid, just the same as using a primary mesmer for full energy denial.

As for being a good cover hex, yeah, it's a decent one at that (but doesn't provide any good hex value). Spirit shackles is a solid anti-ranger skill; actually it's the only good mesmer anti-ranger skill besides diversion. However, a cover hex is not necessary to waste a skill slot. Why waste the skill slot just to prevent the hex from getting removed easily when you can interrupt/divert the skill instead? Spirit shackles doesn't need a cover hex anyway, look at the recharge. You can brute force it through the longer remove hex recharge or divert it instead. Cover hexes are better for stuff like barbs (

) that has a long recharge time and can't be pushed through many remove hexes.

If you want to make focus switching a painful process, that means you're going to be needing to use malaise and wither. So essentially you're doing 80 damage for 20 energy of your own and very little disruption of the monk. Great idea

Jul 23, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

I dont think its worth debating for the 1 billionth time why this skill is horrible. Just let it go

IxChel · Jul 23, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

I dont think its worth debating for the 1 billionth time why this skill is horrible. Just let it go

Well, this is probably the "right-place" to debate it, since anyone looking for commentary on this skill will find this thread. Care to paste one-last-time your objections? Frankly, I've only used Mind Wrack against PvE targets and against very inferior PvP players -- so I don't yet have a feel for how effective it actually is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeru

As for being a good cover hex, yeah, it's a decent one at that (but doesn't provide any good hex value). ... Cover hexes are better for stuff like barbs (

) that has a long recharge time and can't be pushed through many remove hexes.

Nice commentary, thanks. I've not used it well enough in PvP to have good experience. You're saying that a Mesmer primary is poor at energy denial, compared to a Warrior (due to Fear Me?) and a Ranger (due to Debilitating Shot?). That's a good argument. It belongs in another thread, but what do you think of Arcane Echo + Energy Drain? It's 44 energy transfer, which can be quite nice early-game against an Elementalist; or 22 energy drain on two monks before combat really starts moving...

Jul 23, 2005, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Well it's been debated to death for ages, and maybe in time we'll revisit the whole reason why it's a bad skill. But besides the fact that MW wont trigger repeatedly on a 0 energy condition unless the enemy regens atleast 1 energy and gets pushed back to 0 energy there is something that must be asked here:

How threatening is a caster at 0 energy that cant do "anything"?

Tigris Of Gaul · Jul 23, 2005, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackace

How threatening is a caster at 0 energy that cant do "anything"?

Especially when you can begin to do the same to another target... it makes no sense to use MW.

Preppy Emo Kid · Jul 25, 2005, 03:41 AM // 03:41

lmao...you silly silly people

PLEASE dont use this skill...that will make it even easier for us to kick your arses in tombs..

gg DRNK

Zeru · Jul 25, 2005, 09:05 AM // 09:05

on a somewhat related side note: I once rang for a guild with pretty decent players that was testing a heavy energy denial build with mind wrack as the main offensive weapon. Words cannot begin to describe it.

Quote:

You're saying that a Mesmer primary is poor at energy denial, compared to a Warrior (due to Fear Me?) and a Ranger (due to Debilitating Shot?). That's a good argument. It belongs in another thread, but what do you think of Arcane Echo + Energy Drain? It's 44 energy transfer, which can be quite nice early-game against an Elementalist; or 22 energy drain on two monks before combat really starts moving...

I'll get around to showing the math sometime or another but I'm very sure that the echo/debil or echo/fear me/sig weary setup will perform better (the only disadvantage being that without an energy steal you don't know if they are out of energy or not so you may waste stuff).

Preppy Emo Kid · Jul 25, 2005, 07:18 PM // 19:18

dont even bother man...this skill owns, it owns hard as hell

if these people think its noob and dont want to use it...let them

dont educate the ignorant...because they will just argue it

Someone told me "Renewal stops necros from putriding" I told him he was exactly right and we went our seperate ways

Jul 25, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

^rofl

KOGA202 · Aug 06, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

i saw some mesmerspell in the Lions Arch area that is great withtthis i cant seem to reeber what its called i jut remember waht it does evry timean enemy atacks they lose energy it was a SERIOUS PAIN INTHE BUTT but acn anyone tell me what it is called? or where rto get it?

Sereng Amaranth · Aug 07, 2005, 09:12 AM // 09:12

spirit shackles

mariano · Aug 19, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

I think this energy cheap spell may be easy to use as a spell against a ranger or a warrior, before or after Spirit Shackles, and, or, before Energy Burn and some energy stealing spells.

Tarot Ribos · Aug 20, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Mesmers lack quality skills for 5 energy, I've noticed. Hell, they lack skills at 5 energy PERIOD.

That in mind, Mind Wrack is actually quite nice. Highly spammable (for a mesmer), cheap, and can deal a chunk of damage in the process of doing other things. In an energy denial build, your goal is NOT to trigger Mind Wrack, but rather to keep them from doing anything useful. This skill has a large psychological effect: Drop it on them, and then start casting your energy burn/drain/whatever. Even if you don't bottom out their energy, they'll see what you're doing, and will likely NOT want to take 85 damage (domination at 14 gets you that much). How to avoid triggering Mind Wrack? Don't use skills that cost you energy. What does that leave? Attacking with a weapon?

This is where people suggest Spirit Shackles. Frankly, I don't like that skill. The casting time is rather long for such a non-damaging skill. All it's really good for when it comes to triggering Mind Wrack is against Warriors and Rangers. For casters, I suggest Empathy instead. That'll get you more damage than they'll be dealing. But that's for another thread.

Mind Wrack's spammability is an important trait. No, it won't trigger repeatedly on 0 energy, but most casters get back slightly more than 1 energy per second (I say most, due to certain... extenuating circumstances). If they have to recharge 5 energy to cast that spell (likely a monk here), it'll take them 4 seconds. Before that time, you can EASILY cast another Mind Wrack on them. Oh yeah... and in those 4 seconds, you just recovered 5 energy, as well. In addition, not only is it a good cover hex, but the spammability makes it VERY hard to actually get rid of. It simply recharges faster than the hex removal I've seen, and costs the same, if not less.

Is it a 1-hit kill? No, it is not. Is it overpowered? Not really. Is it worthless? Not at all. I've used it with a not insignifigant amount of success in GvG matches. I can safely say that monks REALLY don't like this skill.